Wicked minisode

[00:00:00] Welcome to The Bi Pod, a podcast about all things bisexual. I'm Evan and my pronouns are they and them. And I'm Christina. My pronouns are she and her. We welcome anyone who has any kind of relationship with or curiosity about queerness. The Bi Pod is an ad-free community-supported podcast. You can support us for as little as $2 a month. To join the community or get more information about the podcast, visit patreon.com slash the bi pod.

[00:00:25] This podcast is one piece of the long history of bisexual and queer discourse. We don't know everything. At all. We're here to be part of the conversation. Let's get into it. Hi, Christina.

[00:00:55] Hi, Evan. Happy Wicked Day. Happy Wicked Day. I was like, is there a lyric that I can think of and sing really quick that's like a greeting? But my brain doesn't work that fast, so I didn't. Today we get to talk about Wicked. Yeah, that is what Wicked Day implies. We saw it yesterday, last night. How are you feeling emotionally? I had a great time.

[00:01:24] I mean, I had a great time. Me too. I did tell you just before I came out that I was like mad about how aggressively they were marketing to me. But it wasn't even that they were marketing. I was really what I was mad about is all the product placement. Like every time I walked into Target, there was some new Wicked branded product. And I was like, I don't like this. So I felt weird about that. And I was like, is this movie going to be bad?

[00:01:53] Because there's so many branded products. Yeah. Like is the Wicked industrial complex getting in the way of the art? Yeah. Yeah. But then I saw some like some of the musical numbers and like behind the scenes stuff on YouTube. And I was like, no, no, this is going to be good. I wouldn't. Yeah. Yeah. And then after we saw it, I had to go to Ulta to return something. And I was like, must be strong. Because before I was like, I don't need these Wicked things. But now I'm like, I need all the Wicked things. And I, in fact, I don't.

[00:02:23] Though I do miss, I saw the stage musical. I think we determined in 2009. And my friend that I went with and I got matching popular t-shirts. And there's, I don't have it anymore. And there's no way that if I did, it would still fit me. But I do. I covet Teenage Christina's popular t-shirt. I mean, Etsy. That's true. But like would I wear it? Unlikely.

[00:02:52] But I was like, oh, merch. My mom still has. She got the beach towel when she went in 2009. And she still has it. So I might go steal it from her. I guess that is the upside of merch like that. Yeah. It's the merch that keeps on giving. But yeah, I'm excited to chat a little bit about it. Do you have a personal history with Wicked? Yeah. Well, I mean, I was a theater kid. So in other words, yes.

[00:03:21] I meant to check what the exact year was that the musical premiered. But for instance, I was introduced to Wicked when they performed in the Thanksgiving Day parade. Okay. So early 2000s. Yeah. Yeah. But like pretty early on. Yeah. Yeah. In the in its existence, at least, you know, for a person living on the other side of the

[00:03:47] country and not specifically plugged into into the goings on of off Broadway and on. Um, so listen to the music a lot. But, um, I remember very specifically one of my friends making a puzzle out of the like wicked artwork to give to another one of our friends who was like really a musical theater girly.

[00:04:16] Um, for some reason that's like really exists. But yeah, listen to the music. My sister and I, um, performed a dance to a popular. I would pay so much money to see that. Um, and then I mean, however many years later when it was on its when they were doing the

[00:04:41] second US tour, which was in 2009, as the internet told me, um, I got to see it when they were in Vegas. So I have seen. Oh, I also read the book. Yeah. Um, which is really weird. Yeah. Yeah. And at the time that I was reading it, so I was in a theater program and one of my theater instructors like saw me with it and she was like, it's very different. And I was like, okay, I'm still really excited to read it.

[00:05:09] And then I read it and I was like, this is really weird. Yeah. I've heard only weird things about the book. Yeah. Um, I've not read it, but yeah. It's wild that they could take such, such a source material and create something so beautiful. Yeah. I mean, the themes are all the same. It just is like the book has like weird sex stuff in it, which it's not in this particular musical. Not quite the vibe. No, no. Um, what about you? What's, what's your history with Wicked?

[00:05:39] Yeah. Um, I saw it, uh, as we looked up on the internet in 2009. Um, when that same tour probably that you saw came to LA, um, loved it, was obsessed. I can like still remember, and I grew up going to theater. I grew up performing on stage doing dance, but I also like my grandma, um, got my brother and I season tickets to our like little local playhouse. So I like saw a lot of theater, but it was my first time at the Pantages theater.

[00:06:08] And I can just remember being so moved by Defying Gravity. You can say I was holding space for the lyrics. Um, but like I can remember the feeling in my body cause like Defying Gravity happens and then it's the act break. And I was like, oh my God, I can no longer exist in the world the same way. Like my like whole body had chills. Like I was like, I have never had this kind of experience in a performance before. Wow. Yeah. It was so moving.

[00:06:37] Um, I think I saw it twice, but the second time I remember the first time I'm like who I went with the second time my mom went and I really wanted her to take me. And I don't remember if she actually did take me or if I just really wanted her to. And if I asked her now, she probably would just say that she took me regardless of the truth. Um, so in my head I went twice, but it could have just been the one. And my friend and I would like wear the popular shirts. Like we'd coordinate on the same day to wear them.

[00:07:05] Um, and I have been a fan. I've been excited about the movie coming out. Um, I remember even like way back then, like people talking about a film adaptation. It was going to be a mini series. Yeah. They sold the rights to ABC or NBC. Yeah. One of those. And I remember feeling very protective of the musical and being like, they can only do it if they just like show up and like film the, the musical.

[00:07:32] Like, don't be doing like, no, just as it is, it's what I want to see, which doesn't actually, you know, quite translate to a screen. But yeah. Then you're just watching one of those broadcasts of, um, of a play. Which is what I wanted at the time. Um, but yeah, um, when this new soundtrack came out, I didn't listen to it before we went and saw the movie, but I would like hear it in, you know, various Instagram video clips and like the subtle differences in the way that the people sing.

[00:08:01] I was like, this hurts my brain. Like, it's so good. But I was like this. I like didn't realize how deeply ingrained the nuances of the music were like in my brain until they're a little bit different. And I was like, no reject. Um, but now that I've seen it, I feel a little bit differently. However, I did listen to the original soundtrack on the way over here today. So yeah, on the way home from the movie, I listened to the, to the original cast. Um, Define Gravity.

[00:08:29] No, I listened to As Long As You're Mine. And then I went back and started from the beginning. Yeah, it is just so good. Yeah. It's maybe my favorite musical. As you were talking, I was like, you know, I think this musical is more important to Christina than to me, which I didn't think was like. Yeah, I also didn't really realize that. But yeah, like even, um, I didn't really listen, like go back and listen to the soundtrack even

[00:08:59] to like prepare for the movie. So I was like, let me just go in. But every time a song came on, I was like, Evan, I love this song. And I was like, I have to stop. I love every song. Just know that. But I like remember almost everything, especially in the music. And I was like, wow, this is deeply imprinted in my brain. I always thought Moulin Rouge is my favorite, which I mean, I love Moulin Rouge, but having revisited Wicked. I even looked at Pantages tickets. They're out of my budget right now. But I was like, must see the whole thing.

[00:09:28] Um, yeah, I love this musical. I feel that we should talk about Jonathan Bailey. Okay. Because when that man came on screen, Evan just like five seconds into him on screen, I was already overcome. I was like, he can't, they can't be letting him do this. Evan was, yeah, it was dark in the movie theater, but I assumed that you were bright red. Um, yeah. Yeah.

[00:09:57] There's a tweet that we were talking about that was like, they had to split Wicked into two parts because like, we can't have Jonathan Bailey doing Dancing Through Life. And as long as you're mine, people have families. Like we can't. Oh, so good. Even now, Evan is speechless. He's just so charismatic. He is so charismatic. And pretty and talented. Yeah.

[00:10:27] Very good. Yeah. I'm like not. When it comes, when the second part comes out next year, I was like, we will have to watch part one and then go to the theater for part two. They'll show double features. Yeah. Yeah. But then like the thing will happen where we have both songs at the same time. And I fear the people will leave their home. Like, I don't know what's going to happen, but the people will not be okay. Oh, yeah. It's just so good. Also, he's like dancing with books.

[00:10:57] I mean, like you were excited about like afterwards. You're like with the books. Yeah. The choreography is amazing. It is really good. It's so, so, so good. It is. And I had seen a lot of like the press tour, which we could talk about. So the vibes are so funny. But like I had heard the actors and the director talking about how practical the sets were. And I was like, yeah, I must be nice to have a budget. But like you really feel it. I think.

[00:11:26] And even like in the choreography, like he's like sliding around with books on his feet and they like were books. Like they were real books. They were real books. Yeah. Yeah. They were like weird prop things. Yeah. And like that really came across in the film. I think like the way that like the actors got to like really physically be in like the world as much as possible. Yeah. You really feel that. Yeah. This is a movie where I was like, okay, I understand what they like did with their budget.

[00:11:56] Like it was well put to use. There are some blockbusters where I'm like, you just like wasted all your money flying the cast to like far off locations and nothing interesting is like happening in this movie or it's like all CGI or something. Yeah. Every Marvel movie blows it on. Yeah. CGI and an actor that they have to cast now because they put them in every other movie. Yeah. But this was like the it was gorgeous to look at. Gorgeous.

[00:12:24] A lot of stuff was practical. Like the it just everything was great. Yeah. Yeah. And I think like when you are like taking something that like exists on a stage and taking it to a screen where like you can do more things. Some of that is cool. Like you couldn't have running water on stage at the theater.

[00:12:52] But in the movie, you can like have them pulling up to Shiz University like on a boat or whatever. Yeah. But I think like if you it's really meaningful that they prioritize having a practical set because that like maintains some of the like the magic and like the authenticity of the original screen or the original script and like the original show. Yeah. Yeah. I think I think it makes it more magical. Oh, yeah. Definitely.

[00:13:21] Even Elphaba's green is practical. And they like gave the actress the choice of like did you want CGI or did you want practical? And she like said, yeah, practical. And I think it's better for it. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And I've seen some interviews with Cynthia for Shizos. And it's really cool.

[00:13:45] Like how I think that you can see that the actors had some agency in like how their characters are like styled and portrayed. And like Cynthia who played Elphaba, she was very specific about like the character will have micro braids. Like she's wearing a wig. Um, so it could have been anything, but she was like my character will have micro braids and also she will have long nails.

[00:14:09] Um, and like thinking about, um, like mapping like a black aesthetic onto Elphaba, um, really consciously and really like intentionally, I think really came through. Um, I've been thinking about how like the different choices that Idina Menzel made and like the way that like the characters show up a little bit differently. Um, they're both really great. I'm, I'm not like one's better than the other. Um, but I think that like, I don't know, like small details like that, like add up in

[00:14:39] a big way and also like let the actor show up in the character. Um, and also the actress who plays Nessa Rose is actually disabled. Yeah. Um, which I think is the first time. It is, which in the state, there's reasons why it hasn't happened in a stage play because there's a whole part where then she's able to walk, which is much more complicated with an actor who can't walk.

[00:15:02] But it's, it's a, it's a good use of like what film allows them to do. Yeah. And so they can have an actor who can bring like inauthentic experience to the role rather than like, um, spending the, it's, I think it comes back to like the sets being practical and those sorts of things. Like they are using, um, they made really good choices and they like spent money on the

[00:15:31] things that mattered or like made choices that made it feel really like thoughtful rather than again, just like being annoying. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, um, even like, I don't remember every line of the stage musical. Um, but like a part of Nessa Rose's character, especially in the beginning is that she's like, stop helping me. I can move on my own. Like, don't push me, don't push my chair. Just tell me where I need to go.

[00:16:00] And like Elphaba really understands that, but the dad doesn't. And then like this, like lady who's supposed to escort her to her room doesn't understand it. And I think like having somebody like with an experience of disability be part of the character. And also, even if it was like written already to like bring that awareness to the character, have those lines, um, it just like felt really real. Yeah. Which is great.

[00:16:24] Prior to going to see the movie, I was like, it's actually really weird that this, that they didn't, that this wasn't made, but previously, like it's been so long since the musical premiered and it's so incredibly popular. But then as we were watching the movie, I was like, this is the exact right time. Yeah. For this movie. I've been thinking about how the plot line.

[00:16:50] So we're just assuming if you're listening, if you're this far in, like that you're familiar with Wicked. It's 20 years old. Get it together. You guys come on. Yeah. But the animal plot line of, um, talking animals being pushed out of Oz, like that could stand in for many things. But in this particular moment, I was like, this is a pretty one-to-one to trans people. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:17:19] Like if you just, anywhere in the film, if you were, if you just like pulled out the words, talking animals and instead plugged in trans people, the movie works pretty much exactly the same. Yeah, absolutely. And it's a, there's been like a lot of, um, like making fun of the press tour, which is fair.

[00:17:43] Um, but there's, I don't know what the like origin of it is, but an interviewer told Ariana and Cynthia that, uh, queer people have been like holding space for the lyrics of Defying Gravity. And then like Cynthia gets emotional, whatever. Um, and so everyone's like holding space for this, but like actually Wicked is so queer. Yeah.

[00:18:05] Um, and I think like we can like laugh about the ridiculousness of whatever, like the press of it all, but also like, um, everything about it, I think is like so easy to read as queer coded to me. And yeah, just like bringing that, like that lens is so easy to apply, at least in my head.

[00:18:29] Um, and it's like so meaningful then to like have such a clear story when you bring that reading in. And you have like Elphaba who is like, we have to do anything we can. Like, I'm going to give up my like wish of not, of not being green anymore to like advocate for animal rights. And then you have Glinda who's like, well, but also you could just have what you want. Don't you just want to have what you want? And like her character sort of light changing. And then you have Fiero being like, which, what do you know?

[00:18:57] Um, like you can actually kind of map, like you said, um, you can map like specific experiences, um, and like types of reactions to trans issues and trans rights, um, onto the different characters. Yeah. And the performativity of like, it's not that Glinda is like, I hate talking animals. She's just like, it's sort of not my problem, but also I don't want you to think I'm a bad person.

[00:19:28] Yeah. So I'm going to do the performative thing of like, I'm going to change my name from Glinda to Glinda. And it's like not done maliciously. Yeah. But that also doesn't make it better. Yeah. And I think that we can see that in the musical and then perhaps we can see it in ourselves. Yes.

[00:19:53] I mean, there's definitely a thing happening in this movie of like being a queer person does not save you from being an agent of the state. Like, yep. Yeah. And also the wizard being like just some fucking guy, um, who people like who is, um, bolstered and like upheld and protected by a large group of people and also like worshipped in the abstract. Yeah.

[00:20:23] While meanwhile, he's like actually committing all these atrocities against animals. Um, and also like lying about who he is. I'm like, Hmm. Interesting. At all maps. Um, yeah. And I'm excited. Um, the nice thing about when I was like, why is this movie so long? The play is not that long. And then when we got to Defying Gravity, I was like, don't be over. I'm not done. Please do more. Um, but the nice thing about that extra time is that they get to like get into like more

[00:20:53] like dialogue and detail, I think than you do in the stage production. So I'm interested to see like how they explore those tensions in part two. Although honestly, in the first movie, first of all, it didn't feel long. Not at all. Watching it. Yeah. And it's not like they didn't, there's no, they didn't like insert any like songs or anything. Yeah. Like I've heard that there may be adding songs in the second part, but yeah, it's, I

[00:21:22] mean, beat by beat, like pretty close to the stage musical, but there's just like more space. Yeah. They do. Some of the songs are kind of like broken apart. Like instead of being straight sung through, there's some like action in between and stuff like that, which certainly adds some time, but also it's not a short musical, but yeah, we really liked this movie. Um, I mean, there's so many things that we could say, but this is supposed to be a mini so.

[00:21:49] So I just do want to say that to me, Alphaba and Glenda are queer for each other. And, um, yeah. Yeah. In case you didn't, you knew, but in case you didn't know, um, I've been listening to, um, what is this feeling? And I'm like, if you just swapped loathing for like a different word, um, that's like what you're experiencing. Um, extremely queer. It's enemies to lovers, which we love on the show.

[00:22:18] I sent this to you, Christina and I just send, um, wicked memes and interviews and videos back and forth. But somebody was like, wicked is a movie about Jonathan Bailey, challenger saying two gay women. Challenger saying. That is so funny. Yeah. There is like an interest. I mean, with a love triangle, I'm always like, Hmm, what is this really about?

[00:22:44] Um, but there's like something about like, like approximation happening there. I feel. And like, also I think Glenda's doing comp head. Um, but the scene where they're in the Oz dust and like Elphaba shows up in the hat that Glenda like made her wear. Oh, I wept. And I don't remember that scene like hitting me quite as hard in the stage production, but

[00:23:13] I really just remember like Defying Gravity, like stealing my organs from me and putting them back. Um, but I like, like thinking about that this morning, I teared up. Like it was so, I don't know, just really moving. You're such a cry baby. I am such a cry baby. I was like, no, it's too early in the movie for this. Even like talking about it right now, my eyes are like a little bit wet.

[00:23:41] And I'm sort of not exactly sure why, but it just, it worked for me. Yeah. She's being seen. Yeah. No. Sorry. Should I not have told you why it worked for you? Yeah. How dare you? Um, but yeah, we, um, controversially think that wicked is good. Um, hot take over here.

[00:24:08] Um, but yeah, those are my thoughts. Yeah. They're going to start doing sing along showings. I think next month and perhaps we can go. Yeah. I would like to see the movie again. We'll do it. Well, goodbye. Goodbye. I was like, well, I have been changed for good. I hope you're happy. I hope you're happy too.

[00:24:41] Thanks for listening to this episode. The bipod is made possible by our patrons. You can find us on Instagram at the bipod and on our website, the bipod.com. This show is produced and edited by me. And our theme song is coming home by snowflake.