Challengers: Tennis & Bisexual Chaos

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Bi Pod, a podcast about all things bisexual. I'm Evan and my pronouns are Vae and Nem.

[00:00:06] And I'm Christina, my pronouns are she and her. We welcome anyone who has any kind of relationship with or curiosity about queerness.

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[00:00:25] This podcast is one piece of the long history of bisexual and queer discourse. We don't know everything at all.

[00:00:33] We're here to be part of the conversation. Let's get into it.

[00:00:37] Music

[00:00:53] Hi Christina. Hi Evan. Happy Challengers Day. Happy Challengers Day to you too.

[00:01:00] I was going to be like, do you want to play tennis?

[00:01:05] We're talking about the movie Challengers today. Very exciting to get into them.

[00:01:15] I did a hand thing. You do the hand thing. Yeah.

[00:01:20] After I watched this movie, I was like, Christina, you have to watch this movie so that we can do an episode about it.

[00:01:27] And we actually, we watched it like a week ago but we haven't actually talked about it a whole lot since then.

[00:01:32] No. So I'm excited for this. Only some marginal texting, including a bunch of things I learned about tennis.

[00:01:38] Evan is now a professional expert in tennis history and rules.

[00:01:47] We should give a brief synopsis of the film. Yes.

[00:01:52] Do you want to see more than I have? Sure.

[00:01:54] Yes. Well, that one extra time there. So the film moves, it's not in linear so it moves forward and back

[00:02:01] in time but I'll give you the kind of chronological events. Yeah.

[00:02:08] So three people meet at the junior US Open and this is in the chronology of the film.

[00:02:18] I think 10 or so years before the like most recent timeline, maybe it's like 12 maybe a little longer.

[00:02:24] But anyway, you've got two guys who in addition to doing singles tennis also played doubles together,

[00:02:31] art and Patrick and Tashi Duncan, who was played by Zendaya. I kind of. Yeah. And so the three of them

[00:02:48] and the guys are kind of immediately like she's super hot. Like we want to like be in her

[00:02:56] or met as we all feel about. Yeah. And they sort of have this little competition for her

[00:03:08] affection. They like try to get her number and she's like, okay I'm going to be at your match tomorrow

[00:03:14] where they're going to be playing each other and she's like whoever wins, I'll give my number.

[00:03:23] And Patrick wins and Patrick is the more Patrick's kind of an asshole but that's like

[00:03:32] he knows it like he's doing a thing. Yeah. Where he's like yeah I'm an asshole but you like

[00:03:38] and he's like I'm not going to go to college. I'm just going to go straight to pro that I'm just

[00:03:42] want to do tennis. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. He's very like tone tennis is thing and art, his friend

[00:03:52] is more of a nice guy. Like he likes tennis. He's good at tennis but he also like because he

[00:04:01] lacks that sort of like asshole edge that Patrick has. Like that sort of reflected in his tennis

[00:04:09] and so Patrick wins the match. He gets Toshie's number and the two of them end up dating

[00:04:19] but then art and Toshie are at Stanford together both playing tennis. And like the this little

[00:04:29] love triangle sort of thing is established between them pretty much immediately where it's unclear how

[00:04:38] interested she is in the two of them individually. I would say not at all. Definitely interested

[00:04:43] in them as a unit. Yeah like we'll get into like the scene where they meet. But yeah. Yeah. And

[00:04:52] they are interested in her and it's also unclear the degree to which they are independently

[00:04:59] interested in her and the degree that they are interested in her because of the others. Yeah.

[00:05:04] And then she's interested in her. Yeah. Patrick from the get go is like she is super hot.

[00:05:09] Art is maybe thinks that she's hot because Patrick thinks that she's hot like there's a lot

[00:05:15] of things happening. Yeah. One of the proximation going on. Yeah. Anyway, at Stanford

[00:05:25] Patrick is like coming up to visit for the weekend and art decides he's gonna sort of like

[00:05:33] trying to fuck with things and like has a conversation with Toshie and is like I just like don't

[00:05:37] think that he's that serious about you. I don't think that he loves you and she's like mad at him

[00:05:43] like who think like who told you that I need to need somebody to love me whatever. But then also

[00:05:49] is kind of worried that maybe Patrick is like cheating on her because he's out on tour. Yeah.

[00:05:54] Well she's at school. And then he has a conversation with Patrick and he's like I just got the impression

[00:06:00] that she's like not that serious about you that she like doesn't really care. Which is sort of what

[00:06:06] she said to him but oh yeah. Yeah. And Patrick sees what's happening immediately and is like

[00:06:12] you know I love that I respect you. I'd be doing the same thing if I were in your position. I'm

[00:06:18] proud of you basically for being an asshole. But it also kind of gets in Patrick's head. Yeah.

[00:06:24] And so then when Patrick and Toshie are finally together,

[00:06:29] they have they end up having a big fight and he says that he's like not coming to her match later.

[00:06:38] At that match, she ends up having a critical injury like her leg goes into direction. It's not

[00:06:45] supposed to go. Yeah. And she's like we're led to the part of the reason that that happens is that

[00:06:50] she's really angry at Patrick because like they just broke her. Yeah. Essentially. And so they like

[00:06:56] you see that she's like a little bit. I don't know not out of control but like playing with rage.

[00:07:04] Yeah. And so maybe I was careful as she would normally be. Yes. So she hurts herself.

[00:07:08] Art is at the match and he like go he immediately once she's like runs onto the court

[00:07:14] and is with her when she's sort of being you know tended to. And offscreen you hear like her coach,

[00:07:23] it seems like and like one of the medical guys being like who knows basically if she's going to be able

[00:07:29] to play again. Patrick shows up and is like oh my god I'm so sorry and she's like get the fuck out of here.

[00:07:36] So fair. And he's not leaving until then art yells at him and tells him to leave. That's the end of

[00:07:43] Patrick and Toshie. And then the next time we see them is a couple of years in the future.

[00:07:51] Art and Toshie are having dinner at fucking chillies or something. And she's like giving him some

[00:07:59] like tennis tips and and she's no longer professional. She's someone's hitting partner.

[00:08:05] But they're in Dread took her out. Yeah so she's not competing. And he kind of like gives her a job offer

[00:08:15] and they talk a little bit about when she met Patrick and I was like I don't want to be a home

[00:08:20] and now Patrick and art aren't friends anymore after what happened to Toshie. And she's like so I was a home

[00:08:25] record. And they end up kissing and it's implied like okay there. And the chillies parking lot.

[00:08:37] Yeah. Then we go further into the future. Art is a professional tennis player like real deal

[00:08:44] and this is when we're in kind of the present timeline. And he is trying to get a career

[00:08:49] grand slam which I will explain to you why that is a big deal after I give you the finish the

[00:08:59] summary of this movie. So he's trying to do this big career achievement but he's just had an injury

[00:09:06] and he's had a really good recovery but it seems like he's he's kind of lost his spirit for the game.

[00:09:11] And at this point he is like 29 or 30 which for tennis is like he's kind of on this is like his

[00:09:19] last year maybe he's got one more in him but you don't play much older than that.

[00:09:26] Which I guess is kind of the deal with professional sports. Yeah. And he keeps losing

[00:09:35] Toshie's his coach they have built like an empire. They're married. Yes they're married.

[00:09:40] They have a kid. They're like living in hotels because their daughter likes it.

[00:09:47] Her Toshie's mom is basically like their daughters. And he they're doing the like

[00:09:52] people with money. They have a foundation. Yeah they have a foundation. The whole thing.

[00:09:58] And you can see that Toshie kind of resents not kind of she resents him because

[00:10:03] he had this miraculous recovery. She says at one point I would have done anything for a recovery.

[00:10:07] She says like I would have killed a grandma for that recovery. And she's like obsessed with tennis

[00:10:14] and he has been you can kind of it sets you up to know like she's kind of lived

[00:10:20] by Carey's like through him in the career that he has had. And now he is like so close to the

[00:10:26] pinnacle of success and he is just like tanking. And so she they decide that he needs some

[00:10:35] lower stakes matches and enrolls in this challenger which is just like a low stakes like tennis

[00:10:44] tournament. Where we later learn Patrick is also competing. And now Patrick is like living in

[00:10:56] his car like he's playing tennis but he's not like a top tennis player. So they really have

[00:11:02] this divergence of ways where at the start of the story him and art were like very much on the

[00:11:08] same playing field. They've known each other most of their lives. They went to this fancy tennis

[00:11:13] sport. They're school together. Yeah they both come from money and now art is super famous tennis

[00:11:20] player like do you know all kinds of brand deals whatever and Patrick can't pay for the hotel room

[00:11:30] that he is supposed to stay in because he doesn't have any money. It's like eating the other half

[00:11:35] of a sandwich of this woman working at the tournament that he's enrolling in. So they're in really

[00:11:42] different places and when Patrick finds out that art is in this tournament he's like determined

[00:11:48] that the two of them are going to face each other. And that's sort of where the events of the movie

[00:11:54] happen is like at this tennis tournament and then what is happening in this love triangle sort of

[00:12:02] thing loves not the right word. This intensity triangle. Yeah they're all kind of playing each other

[00:12:08] because who knows what art is doing he's just sort of there in some ways but like

[00:12:14] there's a number of scenes in the movie where like the guys are on the tennis court and Tashi

[00:12:20] they're literally in a triangle formation talking is sitting in the stands and like in between play

[00:12:26] they'll just like look to her like there's this uh there's a lot of looking. There's a lot of looking.

[00:12:31] There's also a few scenes where she's in the stands and you can see everyone around her is like

[00:12:36] looked at the left look to the right what following the ball and she's just staring straight ahead

[00:12:40] or she's just staring at one person it's very interesting. On the one hand I'm like that's what

[00:12:45] happens in the movie and on the other hand I'm like doesn't say anything about this movie but

[00:12:49] those are just with the chronological events, Patrick and Art end up facing each other

[00:12:57] and you do not know who wins their match. Yeah so the way that the movie ends. I think Tashi wins

[00:13:01] the match. Tashi wins the match um but they it's done in a really cool way where like you learn

[00:13:07] things about the present by the way that like we move in the past yeah um yeah and they show

[00:13:14] there's like a few times uh that's like the beginning of story and the end of the story chronologically

[00:13:18] but they show different moments where the three of them were like at the same tournament or in

[00:13:24] the same city and like um when Tashi and Art like her first gotten engaged she runs into Patrick

[00:13:31] and they like are holding hands and kissing at this like table and Art like sees them for a second

[00:13:36] and then gets distracted by someone and then turns back and they're gone and that like has never

[00:13:41] dressed and there's like another one where they like have sex in a car Tashi and I should say

[00:13:49] Tashi and Patrick um although as you pointed out there's like a billboard of art like

[00:13:55] yeah about the thing about this movie is like the three of them are a unit

[00:14:07] and so like Tashi and Patrick at various points are physically intimate we'll say

[00:14:18] and Art is always present so the first time when they when Patrick comes to Stanford

[00:14:30] him and Tashi are like making out and talking and like fooling around in her room

[00:14:36] and they start talking about Art such that at one point she has her hands in Patrick's pants

[00:14:41] and is talking about how he should be concerned about Art that Art might steal her because he's

[00:14:48] like smart and a good tennis player and good looking stuff and like Patrick is like

[00:14:53] not telling her to stop talking about him yeah so they're talking about Art while they're fooling

[00:14:59] around in that first scene yeah and then at the the scene that you mentioned where they run into

[00:15:06] each other I think in Chicago like at a bar the on the TV that is playing in the room that they are in

[00:15:14] they are talking it's like tennis commentators talking about Art and then Art physically like walks

[00:15:20] into the space and then there is another point where they have sex and there is a literal

[00:15:29] fucking billboard that Art is on that is like overlooking them and so it is doing this like it is very

[00:15:38] clearly like putting him into these interactions in a way that doesn't necessarily go in the other

[00:15:46] direction that's true so we see Tashi and Art kiss in that parking lot they do Patrick is mentioned

[00:15:55] right before because Art asks do you think I'm a bad friend and she's like a bad friend to who

[00:16:01] and then they kiss and then there is them now okay so then there's one moment where

[00:16:11] Tashi and Art are in a hotel room he has just told her that he wants to retire at the end of this

[00:16:19] year which is not what she wants to hear and she's like okay that's fine you're in adult you can do

[00:16:26] whatever and he's like I need you to coach me she's like what do you want me to tell you that I'm

[00:16:31] going to leave you if you retire okay I'm going to leave you um oh no I'm going to leave you if

[00:16:37] you don't win tomorrow when it's playing Patrick um it's like all leave you if you don't win

[00:16:45] and so then the two of them start kissing and it's like really passionate for a second

[00:16:50] and then it sort of like dies down and he like puts his head in her lap and it's like can you stay

[00:16:56] with me until I fall asleep and it goes very quickly from being like these are married people to like

[00:17:03] there's like a mothering thing yeah but in that moment they had just been like they hadn't been

[00:17:09] explicitly talking about Patrick but they were yeah and like that to me is like what made it erotic

[00:17:15] because it was like if you don't be him I'm going to like leave you yeah um but it's not it

[00:17:23] it's like not to the same degree yeah like as the yeah well because they're married we just like see

[00:17:29] them together more yes um they'll be like sitting on a couch always in a hotel room yeah

[00:17:34] a hotel suite really um we're like talking to their daughter or whatever how many things about it

[00:17:39] say like this is a marriage of convenience or like not convenience this is a strategic marriage

[00:17:45] um which doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing but it's not like they got married because

[00:17:51] they were like you were amazing about each other yeah but there's just like so many like the relationship

[00:17:58] dynamics in this movie are just like so wild yeah um early on in the movie I hope you've watched

[00:18:06] this movie I don't know why you're listening to this if you have a watch this movie I mean thank you

[00:18:11] for listening yes but you should watch it absolutely um i think there are one of the things that is

[00:18:19] maybe like compelling about Tashi and Art to me is early in the movie

[00:18:27] Tashi says tennis is a relationship and in after watching the movie for the second time with you

[00:18:36] what I realized is if tennis is a relationship by the transitive property that means a relationship

[00:18:43] is tennis and the one of the problems that Patrick and Tashi have is when he comes to visit her

[00:18:52] Stanford she's trying to like coach him she's trying to talk about his tennis game and he's like

[00:18:56] I don't want to talk about tennis and she's like that's all I want to talk about so and she

[00:19:02] she's like I'm we're always talking about tennis yes and then there's a moment where he's like

[00:19:07] are we still she's talking about art I think maybe he's like are we still talking about tennis and it's

[00:19:12] like to Tashi everything is tennis yeah and Patrick despite being like I'm not going to go to

[00:19:19] school I'm going to play tennis like this is my thing he's actually not really passionate about

[00:19:25] tennis he's just passionate about not having to have a job like yes not having to be an adult

[00:19:34] and so Tashi and Patrick like could not connect around like tennis is the thing that brought

[00:19:39] them together but actually Patrick is not that passionate about tennis he likes winning but art

[00:19:46] he has now made tennis his entire life whether or not that's the life that he wants unknown

[00:19:54] but for Tashi and art to have a marriage that revolved there for their romantic relationship to

[00:20:02] revolve around tennis that makes total sense because Tashi if like tennis is a relationship

[00:20:12] is tennis she cannot be playing tennis anymore but she can have a relationship to someone who is

[00:20:19] her out lit and tennis and she can approach that relationship like tennis yeah and that is also why

[00:20:25] like this takes feel so high when he tells her that he's gonna retire because it's like if

[00:20:30] tennis is taken from the relationship what was left yeah and they have a kid but that like doesn't

[00:20:36] need me that compelling no like they do seem at least Tashi does seem like she cares about

[00:20:42] she's not like as does art but like it doesn't seem like it seems like they could parents

[00:20:47] separately and be fine with that yeah they're not gonna like stay together if you had

[00:20:52] and it yeah does make real stakes in a relationship where you're like actually it doesn't matter

[00:20:56] to me whether these people are romantically in love like they have built a real partnership

[00:21:03] around tennis and so what happens when there is no more tennis yeah who knows okay asking

[00:21:10] Sue's yeah yeah um I really want to talk about um the scene where they all meet in a

[00:21:17] hotel room when they're at the um junior open the junior open sorry you know sports I don't

[00:21:25] but the boys like C Tashi and they're like oh my god she's so hot and it's established that

[00:21:30] the boys like basically grew up together they like have been bunk beds for 10 years or something

[00:21:36] like very very very close um and they're sharing a hotel room they invite her to like come visit

[00:21:41] them and she does and then they have a quick conversation of like well what it like

[00:21:47] what are we gonna do if she wants to like hook up with one of us so that was gonna go with

[00:21:50] the bathroom like what are we like you know what's gonna happen and then it like becomes clear

[00:21:55] that she is interested in like both of them she like sits on the bed and like paths the bed

[00:22:03] and it's like come here and they're like arch like which one Patrick immediately just like

[00:22:11] it's up and so they end up just like sitting on either side yeah and then she kisses one of them

[00:22:19] and then the other because Patrick is looking at her like so thirsty like the kiss her

[00:22:25] it's like no so she kisses all right then she kisses Patrick and then she like kind of brings them

[00:22:31] in so they're all kissing each other yeah um and there's a little bit of hesitation from the

[00:22:38] boys I think at first where they're like trying to just like stay on her yeah and then they're like okay

[00:22:43] and then at some point she like pulls away and it's just like watching them make out with each other

[00:22:49] and then that's when she's like I'm not a homeworker by yeah she likes sits there for a minute

[00:22:54] and just like watches the two of them make out yeah and then it's like okay I'm gonna leave

[00:22:59] and they're like so it's like they have been like in a trance but look on their face is like

[00:23:05] oh you're still here like they didn't really sort of they got lost in the like the doing

[00:23:10] everything it's sort of weren't thinking about like oh we're just like it's just like yeah

[00:23:16] yeah yeah and they like I mean then this thing he said happens with Toshie's like whoever

[00:23:22] wins against my number yeah um because she and she's like you still want my number because they

[00:23:28] ask about it and they're both like yeah yeah and they don't seem like there's not like a no

[00:23:34] moment like the guys are really seem that phased no although they also don't like uh they don't talk

[00:23:44] about it yeah Patrick does slap arts dick yeah which is I was like okay we're like how there's

[00:23:53] there's a thing also um they show Patrick in like the present day like a the challenger match

[00:24:01] they show him like sitting in a locker room in a locker room scrolling on a dating app

[00:24:07] and you see like a man show up on his app and he swipes right so he also swipes right

[00:24:13] on every single person that pops up because actually he's just looking for some where to see

[00:24:18] but I think that's like a clever way to establish like whatever he has some attraction or openness

[00:24:23] at least two men and also he's an optimist yes um as all bisexuals are just kidding not

[00:24:32] my full back but yeah that scene is intense um and it's just like interesting like there's so

[00:24:42] much later yes well and one of the very first I think the very beginning of the movie starts with

[00:24:47] them playing tennis like in the present but one of the first scenes where we like really get character

[00:24:52] is at the US open the two Patrick and Art have just played the doubles match which they win

[00:25:00] and they get so excited they're like jumping all over each other Patrick like knocks

[00:25:06] art onto the ground they're like on the ground legs wrapped around each other Christina was like

[00:25:11] very straight and then they're well after this match they're talking about how they're going to

[00:25:22] like could you please just like not demolish me tomorrow and Patrick's like oh I'll let you win if you

[00:25:27] want and art's like really I don't know if I can care like you know once in a blue moon somebody

[00:25:35] from the junior open goes on to be like a big deal but like mostly you know it doesn't really matter

[00:25:41] and art is like well you seem to pretty excited about like you know winning the doubles match

[00:25:46] Patrick's like yeah that's just because it was with you so erotic yeah

[00:25:52] of course changes his tune when the week is gonna get taught she's number but um that's true

[00:26:00] yeah I mean they tell you from the get go like they are I was going to say they're in it for each

[00:26:08] other and then I was like well Patrick is in it for art is art in it for Patrick like I'm clear

[00:26:15] yeah I think like it's interesting because the movie is so focused on the three of them

[00:26:20] yeah like it's and their dynamics and I feel like Tashi is a pretty developed character

[00:26:26] Patrick is also relatively developed but if like art like less so I want to watch the movie

[00:26:34] at third time both because it's great but also because like I felt like I picked up on more of art

[00:26:39] in the second watching and so I'm also interested like how it will feel that makes sense

[00:26:44] a third time because he is more I don't know reserved also because so much in the present he is like

[00:26:53] really dimmed I guess yeah and so you um where she has a younger person feels much like lighter

[00:27:07] dynamic um and so I think some of his stories in the way that like becoming a tennis legend has

[00:27:15] destroyed him like human being yeah which and then I think also with the end of the movie

[00:27:21] like is about unlocking something there yeah yeah at the very end of the movie they the guys like hug

[00:27:28] sort of like over I mean it's like a little bit more intense than that they had like a little bit more

[00:27:32] one of them like jumps up in the air and they like grab each other over the the net

[00:27:39] like oh yeah that's a net and Tashi like cheers um that's why if like she wins the match

[00:27:45] because like we don't actually know who wins but uh it's like she is like seen

[00:27:50] a relationship developed like on the court which is what she's looking for um I feel like this

[00:27:55] movie is like a true love triangle usually when we talk about love triangles we're talking

[00:28:00] about like a love angle where it's like one person interested in two different people and those

[00:28:06] two different people are like not into each other but here everything connects the sides all go together

[00:28:13] yeah yeah yeah it whether that be like about a power dynamic or about tennis or a sexual

[00:28:19] attraction or like whatever there's like something there's like a volume back and forth between

[00:28:25] everybody in the triangle yeah falling is an apt word yeah it's tennis like the relationship

[00:28:33] they're they are playing a game of tennis emotionally and especially you yeah yeah I did after

[00:28:42] watching this movie for the first time the um now I forget in the timeline if it was

[00:28:48] wimpled in or the US open but an important tennis thing was was happening and I saw it and I was

[00:28:55] like maybe I'll just like watch some tennis and I was like you know it's not quite as interesting

[00:29:00] when I don't know if these people are gonna fuck yeah without this actual tension tennis is just

[00:29:07] a ball in a racket yeah it's like not quite the same not knowing now I know a lot of things about it

[00:29:15] yeah I was gonna say do you want to share your knowledge yeah so the setup for this movie

[00:29:22] at least when it comes to like arts career is that he is trying to achieve a career grand slam

[00:29:29] so there are four opens every year and they're spaced out they're basically like one so quarter

[00:29:35] so you have the Australian open which I think is in January and then the French open the US open

[00:29:42] and wimpled in they may not necessarily be in that order um yeah tennis has don't come for us

[00:29:48] but those are the four things so a grand slam would be to win all of those tournaments in a

[00:29:56] single year a career grand slam is to win all four of them over the course of your career

[00:30:03] now just a standard like one year grand slam um only like five people have ever achieved that

[00:30:11] in standard singles tennis it's like three women and two guys a career grand slam again for

[00:30:18] standard singles tennis it's 18 people so it's more people but it's really not that many people who have

[00:30:25] ever had that yeah and so art to do this thing that not that many people have done he just has to win

[00:30:32] the US open he has already won the other three and like not only is it like it's not just that

[00:30:42] you have to win something like to get into an open the way and they explain this a little bit in

[00:30:48] the movie is the top 100 ranked tennis players automatically get a slot but there is um like 120

[00:30:59] 150 slots in the tournament so every other tennis player is basically like competing to get one of those

[00:31:08] slots yeah so you have to like qualify for a qualifier to then get into the open

[00:31:17] there's a funny scene where Patrick is explaining that it's just this woman who's like

[00:31:21] you're gonna be in the US open and he's like well she's like if I win this tournament I'll qualify

[00:31:27] she's like so then and she's like no I qualify for the qualifier yeah there's like a lot of steps

[00:31:34] so given the fact that he has won three other opens we know that art is in the top 100 so first

[00:31:43] he's one of the best tennis players in the world to be in the top 100 players and then he has beat out

[00:31:51] over a hundred other people like you don't play all you don't play everyone but

[00:31:57] but still so when that means in theory with the tournament you've yet to the top yeah and so he is like

[00:32:03] so close to the top of the fucking mountain yeah and for the him to then be like

[00:32:12] I'm gonna retire whether or not I win the open is like running a fucking marathon

[00:32:21] and like right before the finish line being like I changed my mind yeah like for a little bit like

[00:32:31] one day I just don't run which I think really brings a lot of texture to like

[00:32:39] what is happening for Tashi yes because Tashi's like how could you even consider that yeah

[00:32:46] like if she was still playing there's no way yeah and I mean it's also says nothing about art

[00:32:55] that he's like it's actually not I'm sure she's the point where it is not that important to

[00:33:00] to do this thing there's also a moment where Patrick tries to convince Tashi this is like in

[00:33:10] the present timeline that she should become his coach because he believes that she could like make him

[00:33:19] enough to turn his career around and that he could then get a grand slam in the following year

[00:33:28] so a bit overconfident perhaps the point like I did the this movie takes place right before

[00:33:36] the U.S. open is about to happen because that's the tournament that like art has coming up that he needs to win

[00:33:43] so Patrick is basically saying like I think you know in the next six months I could go from being

[00:33:50] not in the top 100 to getting a spot and then winning all of these things yeah and even art

[00:34:01] who we know is very good I think he's actually won the other open multiple times I think

[00:34:09] the beginning that he's maybe won maybe all of them twice or like several of them twice which is a big deal

[00:34:16] and Patrick who as far as we know has not won any of those yeah open is like if you were my coach

[00:34:24] I could then go on to win all four of these things next year yeah which is the fucking odd

[00:34:33] that they I guess maybe it also says something about her that he's like you are what I need to

[00:34:39] make this happen he tries to picture on like what a story it will be yeah like that he's gonna

[00:34:44] rise from the ashes or whatever yeah she doesn't buy into it she's like your 30 fucking years old

[00:34:50] you know what you need to do quit you know call your rich parents and ask them for money yeah

[00:34:55] yeah she has a couple lines where I'm like oh she killed me

[00:35:00] I mean she's like doing mean mommy and I think we've established that that works for me

[00:35:08] it's also interesting because so Patrick and art are both white and Tashi famously is not

[00:35:19] Zendaya they also like they make a point like really you don't know much but any of the

[00:35:24] characters except for like these three people but they do make a point to show because like

[00:35:29] Tashi's mom is in some scenes like with their kids she's white they do show a scene

[00:35:37] early in the timeline where Tashi's dad is like oh hey let's go do this thing and he's black to

[00:35:43] establish like this is a baracial character yeah and the movie doesn't like explicitly say a

[00:35:49] ton about that but they do as you said like establish then she is biracial there's also like a

[00:35:55] lasting happening where like Patrick and art went to this fancy expensive boarding school

[00:36:01] and Tashi is like we could never afford it also even if we could my parents wouldn't want me

[00:36:07] like in that kind of environment we're there like what do you mean she's like she's like look at

[00:36:11] us we're in a hotel room like yeah like here and like whatever so there's like that and then

[00:36:22] whatever dynamics you may like read into the narrative but there is a moment in the later part

[00:36:29] of the film where Tashi goes to Patrick the night before him and art are gonna play and tries to

[00:36:36] convince him to throw the match and Patrick is like I can't believe that you would do this to art

[00:36:45] which is very interesting then he's sort of like it's not that he doesn't want to throw the match

[00:36:49] because he doesn't want to lose it's like if he knew that you were doing this yeah it would

[00:36:55] never be like yeah which he's still thinking about arts feeling yeah now that they're you know

[00:37:01] whatever he wants to beat art yeah but also yeah so there's a whole thing happening there but yeah

[00:37:09] he's like I like can't believe that you would do this like what blah blah blah and Tashi is like no

[00:37:17] I'm taking such good care of my little white boys yeah and it's like oh yeah yeah yeah yeah

[00:37:28] yeah and I feel like even though the movie and there's also a couple other things like in

[00:37:32] their early narrative she plays I think like a German person like yeah and yeah and she talks about

[00:37:40] how she's like a sore loser because she's racist and stuff so there aren't like the movie isn't

[00:37:45] like race blind which I appreciate um and I feel like it's very like well the day was also a producer

[00:37:51] on the movie which I feel like that knowledge like informs my read of that choice

[00:37:58] it doesn't feel like they took an easy out it feels like no they are just really focused on this

[00:38:03] one dynamic um and still make sure that like that part of the dynamic is stated especially

[00:38:12] the Tashi is aware of it yeah yeah like I don't even have it it brings a particular texture

[00:38:23] it does it does bring yeah she is so good she's definitely the most like I mean everyone in the

[00:38:32] movie I think did a very good job but uh she's like the richest character and I think a little bit

[00:38:37] that is the writing but a lot of it is her acting yeah I mean everything about this movie is well done

[00:38:45] it is incredibly like the cinematography is great like the script is good like everything about it

[00:38:52] is like firing on all cylinders I feel but she I mean that's a tough character very tough character

[00:39:00] because she's not like oh yeah nothing yeah nothing she is not warm yeah she is very like driven

[00:39:10] and not only is she driven but then you have to see her lose the thing that she is driven

[00:39:15] like not be able to directly participate in that thing like yeah that's an incredibly complex character

[00:39:21] yes and so did play her in a way that isn't just like oh she's just like a bit choose like

[00:39:29] I don't know jealous of art success or something like she wants him to succeed yeah but also

[00:39:36] she wants that for her set like yeah like she's toxic and intoxicator yes I can't engage with like

[00:39:43] internet comments I mean in many ways but this movie I think there's lots of people who would like to

[00:39:51] collapse all of these characters like arts bad because of this or Tashi is like I mean a lot of people

[00:39:57] would like to me Tashi the villain which is the easiest thing to do both because of the character

[00:40:02] and she's a woman of color and all of these things but like but none of the characters are good

[00:40:07] yeah bad like they're not really particularly likable but they're fascinating yeah

[00:40:14] and they're dynamic is fascinating I liked that too because I think like there's like the cheating

[00:40:19] element of like she's married to art but then like keeps having these runs with Patrick and I

[00:40:23] think that it would like in another movie it would be like she's deceiving her husband and yeah art is

[00:40:30] like the innocent whatever and like it's not good at cheating on your partner no but this is a movie

[00:40:38] and the I think that like the film takes great care to be like this is all super complicated yes

[00:40:45] no one here is like great yeah you know I mean the beginning of their relationship is ultimately

[00:40:51] born out of him trying to like yeah with her relationship with his best friend yeah it's so messy

[00:40:58] yeah for reasons it seemed to have more to do with the friend than like his interest in her yeah

[00:41:04] which that's a whole we could have an entire conversation with like other person as conduit

[00:41:09] yeah like the queer experience of being like I want this person because so does the

[00:41:13] other person yeah and I want them yeah but we can't talk like we can't talk about it oh there's

[00:41:20] like so much um this is a movie that really asks you to like hold complexity and it does it

[00:41:27] in a great way we didn't even talk about the soundtrack funny oh yeah they ate with them

[00:41:34] and like you said the cinematography is really great and like I don't really care about sports

[00:41:37] like at all and like I like sports movies that are not about sports this is very much about

[00:41:43] sports but like in a way that was interesting yes it's about relationships yeah which is sports

[00:41:49] exactly like yeah exactly um and I think that like all the actors did a great and they had like

[00:41:54] body doubles and I think the ball was probably CGI did after um but like the actors and their

[00:42:00] doubles and trainers like did a great job at like achieving the like this is what it would look like to be

[00:42:06] like US open athlete like elite tennis players you know so good it's so sexy it's a very sexy

[00:42:14] movie that um I think it's it's the same director or same cinematographer or something as

[00:42:21] call me by your name thanks same director yeah and I feel like some of that same like

[00:42:28] gaze happens in this movie that happens in call me by your name yeah of like the gaze yeah

[00:42:34] the gaze and also the gaze you know but of like looking at the bodies and like in a way that's

[00:42:43] like not leery but as uh I keep doing finger things of like you know this movie brilliantly showcases

[00:42:52] like what it is to make something erotic without making it quote unquote sexual so true yeah

[00:42:59] yeah and it's like sweaty and it's so sweaty you know there's so much white

[00:43:05] it's gross in a way that's like yeah yeah it's very visceral of very like physical very like

[00:43:14] yeah kinetic visceral is a good word yeah it's a very intense movie very intense which as we've

[00:43:26] watched this movie so many times it just was like so much going on yeah I feel like everyone's

[00:43:32] here the one time but I feel like there would be things to discover in every watch also like

[00:43:37] I didn't really worry about saying spoilers because I feel like all the information that's in the

[00:43:42] movie is like in the trailer yeah but but like but it's not like there's more things you really do

[00:43:49] have to it is experiential yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah like when you did the recap and you were like

[00:43:55] that's what happens but that's not what happens of like exactly it's a very experiential yeah

[00:44:00] we like this movie we do yeah and you should watch it it is chaotic we buy sexual

[00:44:06] it is so chaotic maybe bisexual yes I have a tennis dress and it like made me want to wear it

[00:44:15] I also have a tennis dress oh we should wear our tennis dresses and go play football

[00:44:19] have a moment we did that

[00:44:23] that's right I can challenge you to the one that's a football court

[00:44:26] okay we used someone to actually be ginger like sitting on this dance is looking back and forth

[00:44:31] that is being like who should I go sniff it's gonna have some volunteers but actually we have

[00:44:37] that covered yeah thank you so much well not now well goodbye

[00:44:50] thanks for listening to this episode the biopod is made possible by our patrons you can find us

[00:44:55] on instagram at the biopod and on our website the biopod.com this show is produced and edited

[00:45:02] by me and our theme song is coming home by snowflake